I am new to this site and the system seems to me very unfair. For example I work hard to finish a translation and make it as perfect as possible, then comes another translator who changes just a few words in my translation using synonyms or adding unnecessary words, or even just changing a letter in a segment and this really pisses me off since this takes a part of the money I worked hard for. How on Earth is this fair? I work also on other sites but they have different and much fair systems, like there is a peer review but the reviewer takes nothing from your money unless the client requests also a proofreading. This system is too easy to abuse and allows abuse from reviewers... it is not fair!
Agree, it's unfair
Just did a small translation job. I have only done three translations here, so my rank is low. My work was edited by a clearly incompetent translator with a higher rank.
He made the following mistakes:
1. In my translation, I used the informal style - this is a gaming/betting site, formality is inappropriate. The "edits" involved shifting the verb endings and pronouns to the formal style, without even considering the importance of style from a marketing point of view (after all, the client wants to make money, and the type of visitors that use betting sites will only be put off or feel uncomfortable when addressed in a formal tone).
2. The editing translator lacks the knowledge of how to correctly use the formal style - in Bulgarian, formal style pronouns are ALWAYS written with a capital letter and he wrote all instances in lower case.
3. The editing translator made a couple of typos, including writing "Step 2" where the source has "Step 1", "Step 12", where the source has "Step 2" (I had written these CORRECTLY) and writing "защитени сървър", which is actually the plural form of the adjective used with a singular noun. I hope that last bit is a typo because otherwise he'd be clearly too incompetent to work for anyone.
The above examples only serve to illustrate how this site seems to promote incompetent translators.
I have just experimented the
I have just experimented the same, all the translation, that I have done in first, has been changed! and my rank has been also reduced in the package, the project is not closed but I have lost the possibility to review it-
Unfair? Did you remember the
Unfair? Did you remember the En to FR manual translation of steam cleaner? In the translation file, you should be able to see how many unacceptable translation mistakes in the job, while these mistakes were as is until the deadline...
All the time, I don't want to discuss with all of you about the fairness of ranking system - as we may see it from different point of view. While, you should be aware if you are working with certain vendor or client offline, they will never work with you if you deliver a bad quality. This is the same on Translia as we only want to work with professional translators, not all.
Sorry if I'm too straight-forward.
Regards,
Yolanda
And some good translators
And some good translators have lost their rank completely in this language pair which doesn't make sense.
I feel I am one of those
I am stuck at rank 5, and I do not think it is fair...
and their access to Translia
and their access to Translia too...
I don't understand, the project is not closed ( and not sent to the client at my mind) and it can still be corrected in case of big mistake before the deadline. Who will do that as the project is at 100% now? They have perhaps got bad feedbacks concerning some other translations and decided to immediately stop a team.
Maybe they have hired a reviewer in this pair.
Really? I didn't know they
Really? I didn't know they had lost access to Translia. I had know idea that translators with no rank after their name had been dropped from the site. I thought they just had to start from scratch. It is possible that they hired a Reviewer after Sylvie's comments. It seems that those who scream loudest and criticise others most impress the adminstrators. But I really don't think it correct that anybody should be wiped off a site in this way unless they have infringed the rules or been offensive to other translators which I don't believe is the case here. There have been so many comments from translators unhappy with the ranking system - not so much with the rankings but the (unknown) reasons behind the sudden drop in rank. It creates a lot of uneasiness within the teams. I really don't see what the problem is for Translia to say, "hey, the other translators have been complaining about your translations so can you be more attentive to a, b, and c.", but give the translator being put on the spot a chance to defend or justify his translation. Or, on a specific translation if the client is not happy with the translation, Translia should advise exactly what he is not happy about. The translators in question could be given three warnings (but each time with an explanation of the reason behind it) and then if it doesn't improve, they could be suspended or made to take take a test in their language pair to be able to continue. But to just wipe people off to me is pretty unethical and mean. (The other thing which is totally unfair concerns translators who have reached a high grade (R9 or R10) then haven't touched a translation for 9 or 10 months but still retain their grade when they pop up again. In the meantime, others have risked their grade by taking on translations and working hard for Translia on a regular basis).
Did you all spot today's
Did you all spot today's deliberate mistake? "no idea"!!!! :)
Is it ultimately more unfair for the clients?
I'm not exactly new to this site but I must admit that I gave up after a couple of attempts to collaborate because I got frustrated with the quality of some of the work I've seen on it. I keep coming back every so often to see if things have changed and I must say that I'm still not impressed at all. Ultimately, it's expected because this system may reward unexperienced translators. (Not always, of course, but it's possible.) I've been a translator for 20 years. I have certifications as a translator and a degree in Spanish linguistics. Of course, I have my own client base, which means that when I get a notification about a project from this site, I can't always "beat everyone to the punch". This in turn, makes it very hard (if not impossible) to develop a high ranking... So I can see a "less than perfect" translation but I'm powerless because my ranking is not high enough... I could have translated or edited the project, yet because someone was... let's say "less busy", they answered first and completed the work, one day after another until they got to have a very high ranking.
Does it seem unfair to me? Absolutely! Although I receive a steady flow of projects, I could always take on more work. As a professional, I am upset when I see something that is subpar. However, I consider myself lucky because I'm not the client. I'm not the one paying for work that may not exactly be great (and again, many of the translations are indeed professionally done and very accurate).
Overall, I think that like all new ideas, this is one that still requires some tweaking... In the meantime, some of us may decide to stay away from it. Ultimately, it's my choice as a translator to collaborate on this site or not. Personally, I've decided not to. If other new or experienced translators can benefit from sites like this one, good for them...
high ranking
Certainly you cannot get a higher rank if you do not work at all for Translia,
Translia doesn't automatically recognized your know-how. This is unfair, maybe or maybe not. I like this principle, as you did not have to do free test ( here you are paid for your work).
If you regularly check jobs available on the site during your working hours, translate some segments ( it is not always too late) and put a comment when you see that something is wrong...Your rank will increase.
A gold job going out in that state!
Forgive me if I may appear out of order but I am absolutely mad about a gold job going out from the French team. Although I have tried to alert support, I got no answer. Unfortunately, anyone involved in this job will be penalised if the client is not happy for the sake of one person. For those of you who speak French, please see the exemple below, for the others, I apologize. Any comments gratefully received.... (Please note that the customer gives you online space to store your photos and that we were given the link, the site is available in French).
Translation sent to the customer
Le téléchargement de votre lot d'images devrait commencer immédiatement Une boîte de dialogue apparaîtra et vous demandera ce que vous voulez faire avec le lot de fichiers zip. Vous pourriez avoir besoin de choisir "Enregistrer sur le disque", puis de spécifier où le fichier zip devrait être sauvegardé sur votre ordinateur (par ex. votre bureau). Si cela ne démarre pas, essayez <4> <5>de télécharger le lot manuellement<6><7>. Télécharger l'album
Suggested translation
Le téléchargement de vos images doit commencer immédiatement. Dans la boîte de dialogue qui s’affiche, spécifiez ce qu’il faut faire avec les fichiers zip. Vous pouvez, par exemple, demander à les enregistrer sur un disque de votre ordinateur à l’aide de l’option « Save to disk » pour indiquer à quel endroit ces fichiers zip doivent être enregistrés (sur votre bureau par exemple). Si le téléchargement ne démarre pas, essayez de télécharger manuellement vos images à l’aide du lien <4> <5><6><7>. Télécharger vos images
Unbelievable....
Sorry Sylvie, I do not
Sorry Sylvie, I do not understand the reason for which you did not enter your corrections in this translation as you have the rank to do them. You seem really sure of all improvements to bring at this text, so I suppose it is due to all comments left here.
If I have well understood Translia rules, if one client is not satisfied, he can ask for a translation review free of charge. In this case, one french translator must review initial translation and improve it.
I know it is not a good thing for us and of course for Translia.
With regard to the french translator team, I think we have to work more slowly in order to avoid any misunderstanding but I noted that at this time all translators pounce on each task, trying to translate increasingly quick (with or without outside help), and therefore to earn more money, why not?
Hi there...
Thanks for you comments. Let them jump I think, they will soon realise that their translation is not up to standard but I personaly refuse to get involved. I am not on a witch hunt as Belier suggests, a translator I very much respect mayI add, but the quality from our group is going down?
Sorry Sylvie, really didn't
Sorry Sylvie, really didn't mean to offend you with my comment - I just meant that the Forum was getting a bit inflammatory and personal and I didn't think we should cite other translators' efforts here in a negative light. It will get out of hand if everybody justified their point of view by quoting a translation which they considered wasn't the best. Just think that should be dealt with within the project framework. I do know how passionate you are about the translations and achieving perfection.
I do not want to be accused of stealing points!
Nothing more to it! As I keep on reiterating, when it comes to software applications, MS rules OK. I do not always agree but they have set the standard. If some people know better, as I suggested, they should take it up with Microsoft, not me!
Agree with you JMartin, I
Agree with you JMartin, I made a similar point that people are racing through without enough thought to the translation. For Sylvie I would say that we mustn't let this Forum become a witch hunt and not sure it is a good idea to expose any translator's work here for criticism. We all get frustrated with different aspects of this system - the newcomers because they have to earn their stripes before they can participate as effectively as they would like and the higher ranks because, well just because. It is also interesting to see people making comments and not realising they are doing the very same thing themselves which upsets them when others do it (I include myself here). As for global abbreviations/acronyms, the French language is riddled with them and you could probably hold an hour long conversation just talking in short form. I, for one, have no pretensions about knowing them all, but I research them. Only too happy though when another translator enlightens me with the info. It may be very obvious to whoever is familiar with the particular field being translated but no translator whatever their rank should be put off from asking in the comment box what an abbreviation or acronym stands for without being judged or fearing ridicule, don't you think?
Yes as we know that an
Yes as we know that an acronym can have several particular meanings, it can be interesting to check its exact signification with the other translators working on the same task. Just to be sure.
Did you receive some ironic comments in acting like this? Don't worry, sometimes, we have the feel to pass an exam at each translation that we do. Our fellow translators judge our own work, they also can leave unpleasant messages, but nobody knows everything and the wheel turns.
I regret the tone of this page, I think Translia is not a so bad system for who accepts to work in team but sometimes it can be stressful. The door is open.
Cheers
Unfair Evaluation
I find this a very unfair system: there are some translators who modify the text when it is set up as committed, just to earn more points. Specially when the modification is not justified and therefore the quality of the job is reduced and the original translator is badly evaluated by the customer.
"unfair": As to Translia, all
"unfair": As to Translia, all we do is to ensure the final quality meet the client's expectation. Our evaluation system is same for all translators on Translia. We have no bias to any translator and we always welcome professional translators.
And same, if you take advantage of Translia system to deliver better translator, you can and then earn more; if you use it only for more editings and earnings, you may be blocked sooner or later. We blocked quite a few translators already.
Regards,
Yolanda
Quality of French translations lately
I agree with Emmanuel, the quality of French translations has gone down, virging on the ridiculous, as the ranking of some translators has gone up. I would like to know if Translia bothers to look at the comments we leave confronted with bad grammar, typos, lack of specialist knowledge, etc? My specialization is computing, and whether I like it or not, MS SG prevails!
Thanks for getting back to us!
Sylvid (contraction of Sylvie being lived at the quality!)
But this happens to
But this happens to everybody. As long as the translation is still open anybody can come in to improve it - not just to get points but to get the best translation for the client. If your rank or mother tongue doesn't let you make the changes, you can put your suggestions for a better translation in the Comments box or defend your original translation if somebody has changed it and it will be taken up by somebody competent to make the change on your behalf.
Oh look
We're both back on R9, tee hee!-:)
I normally agree with you Belier...
But lately, it looks like warfare between French translators. Of course we welcome new comers who are entitled to their fair share of the work in Translia in the team spirit we have (sometime with difficulty and I am no exception) become used to. But they want it all, and they want it now, and the quality is frightening me to such a point that I will not get involved in some of the projects. And when I think that customer paying for a gold service are getting the results they are getting...
I guess the core problem is
I guess the core problem is that the system allows translators to go in and change a translation after the job is complete (i.e. all the segments have a "ready to commit" status). If the client has paid for a certain level of service, with one, two or three rounds of editing, that's exactly how many they should get, no more and no less. Taking points (and therefore money) away from previous translators just because someone new came in and made an edit is not right. This "feature" of being able to edit 100% complete jobs should simply be taken out. If someone wants to contribute at that point, it's enough to be able to post in the comments section.
It's the model of Translia
It's the model of Translia and we think it's right. If the original translation is not good enough, of course we should allow others to improve it. And the original translator earn less for the poor translation.
Of course, the translators who correct the bad translation should be award and paid. Otherwise we think it will be unfair to let these translators do "free translation".
BTW, not everyone can came in and edit the translation - there are limits to languages and ranks.
Regards,
Yolanda
Ok, I certainly understand
Ok, I certainly understand the argument that there should be a way to improve the translation if it is bad. The problem, though, is that this is open to abuse by people who go in to make unnecessary edits (such as changing a word to its synonym or even just leaving an extra space at the end of the sentence), just so they can get the points, and they sometimes end up making the translation WORSE, not better. I have seen this happen a number of times. Perhaps a solution might be to keep an edit history and allow translators to revert to a previous version if it was a better one, with the points going back to the original translator.
Because language is dynamic,
Because language is dynamic, I don't think these exchanges will ever be resolved 100% to everyone's satisfaction - too many factors involved. We all have our own style (I can usually tell who is working on a translation with me without checking the names now). Synonym snitching is always going to happen, some do it for points and others in the belief that their word is really better. And some just change for the sake of change - almost territorial, and belittle a lower ranking translator's efforts - big mistake, some of them are excellent and I sometimes don't understand why they are stuck on a low rank. Some translators are too rigid and make no difference between literary translations where you can "think outside the box and be a bit colloquial" or more scientific/industry specific jobs where terminology should be adhered to. There is the North American-Europe/UK divide and some people are not checking to see who the main target audience is before imposing their style. We do need to work together because it should be a seamless translation. We are lucky because we work with translators with a wide scope of expertise and we should feed off this knowledge for future translations.
original translator ear less....
Allow me to correct you, although I am not a native but third person in English... eh eh!
Bests
Sylvie
Sorry, but I don't agree with
Sorry, but I don't agree with you. It can be 100% but still not the best translation, especially if the whole translation has been done by non mother tongue. Some of them are screaming out to be changed. And just posting a comment may not get the translation changed to be perfect if the original translator doesn't want to act on the comment, or time zone prevents it. I also don't think we should be concerned with the number of rounds of edits - the financial side is between Translia and the client. Racing through the translations to get the most points without due care is as bad as coming in after 100%. The whole point of the projects not closing as soon as they are 100% is exactly so other available translators can have a final proof and improve the translation if it needs it.
but who is right and who is wrong?
We now have translators who have been promoted through their hard work trying to change basic terminology and through their lack of experience, have not yet been confronted with such things as MS, SAP or who erver SG. They are going against the industry standards because they think they know better... We tell them, but they still going on about us "stealing their points". Like everybody else, I am here to make money, but not at the expense on anybody else. But by the same token, why bother if it is going changed back? I'd rather take my dog for a walk...
But what if the customer
But what if the customer rejects the translation, who should be blamed/punished?
When there is negative
When there is negative feedback, all translators will be affected according to our evaluation system.
I think this is quite complex
I think this is quite complex and I honestly don't know how it is broken down. I think we have all experienced this but if we work as a team, we are obliged to accept that sort of decision as a team and bite the bullet and not apportion blame. Maybe communicating more freely in the Comments box while the translation is still active and if there is difference of opinion, getting a consensus of all working on the job is the answer. (not always easy or possible, I know, with time zone differences).
It happened to me recently too
I have experienced the same problem with somebody of higher rank who jumped in when it had been translated by three translators and was ready to commit. He just made some uneccesary changes and got all the points.
I am puzzled!
Hi Severine, I cannot understand. When you make changes because you feel they are needed, you get some points but the original translator retains all the point? Which I think is fair working as a team?
From what I could see
someone who had not worked on the translation but made edits suddenly got the majority of the percentage and a high number of points. It is very puzzling.
My earnings are locked since last 9 weeks.
I have got around 8900 points to encash since last 9 weeks but I cant do so because the system allows me to encash only when my earnings cross 10000 points. It means the $89.00 amount which should have been in my account by now, will be locked in the system till I earn more points. And God knows when new jobs will be posted in my language pair. Does it mean that if no new jobs are posted in my language pair for 01 year, my $89.00 will remain locked? If it is so, then the system is very unfair.
Hello,Actually we made
Hello,
Actually we made exceptions if there are not so many jobs for certain language pairs. You can issue a request by clicking Support. Our team will process accordingly.
Regards,
Yolanda
P.S. From our record, we paid you in Nov 2011. We don't know what you mean about "locked for one year"....
First, your job is Silver job
First, your job is Silver job and 2 different translators are required to finish it together. The translation fee is shared by you and the other translator.
As I ever worked as translator too, I can understand the feeling when my translation is revised by someone else. So let's respect our fellow translators as well and be more open minded.
If our translation is wrong and the revision is correct, undoubtedly accept it;
If our translation is not wrong but the revision is a little better, accept it;
If revision is almost same as the existing translation, it may be the preference of each translator, accept it unless you have a reason for your translation;
If the revision is totally wrong or worse, reject it and change your translation back. If you keep finding the same translator changing good to bad, then s/he is too bad to do translation. Just report and let's remove him/her from Translia.
Finally, we Translia don't want to be any other system. We just want to be Translia.
Regards,
Yolanda
I have found that following
I have found that following Yolanda's suggestions can ensure good cooperation among translators. I would like to repeat the principles here:
If our translation is wrong and the revision is correct, undoubtedly accept it;
If our translation is not wrong but the revision is a little better, accept it;
If revision is almost same as the existing translation, it may be the preference of each translator, accept it unless you have a reason for your translation;
If the revision is totally wrong or worse, reject it and change your translation back.--AND GAVE MY REASON FOR CHANGING by leaving a comment.
But you know a lower ranked
But you know a lower ranked translator cannot change the translation back once it has been changed by a higher one so this is where the unfairness comes in. They can only put a comment. And your third comment doesn't seem right. If the changed translation is the same (or almost) as the original one, why should the original translator accept it. Why can't the one who is keen to change it just accept that the original translation is good if there is hardly any change to make. I know you are repeating the Translia rules but it doesn't justify that they are fair.
Ranking
I think a separate forum should be opened on ranking because there seems to be a lot of resentment and misunderstanding on this (starting which me)?
difficulty in chat...
I have on many occasions after receiving notifications tried to get in touch whit another translator to try to agree on a term but this does not appear to be possible. Why?
Do you mean going through the
Do you mean going through the Comments box Sylvie? I have found that, but just assumed that they were on another time zone and may have gone to sleep/to lunch/or just gone offline for the evening. This is why I suggested a chat facility where it is more direct and you can get the segment wrapped up quickly.
Long live to it.. It is
Long live to it.. It is becoming soooooooooo frustrating!
All what you've said is right
All what you've said is right Yolanda, in my case some revisions were worse but I can't reject them because I'm R6. That's why I was so angry. But I immagine that when we'll have a higher level, we will work better all together.
Thank you.
I understand you Sireea. I
I understand you Sireea. I worked alone on a translation and I'm seeing one really unfair person that is taking the money I worked for only because she is R8 and so she can edit the translations I made. The problem is that she doesn't edit anything, she only changes ''!!" with "!" and there are sentences that didn't change, but she took more than 12% of my work doing NOTHING! It should not be possible to do it. If you change a translation because you think that is not right, I can understand, but if you do it only to have the money the others worked for, you are a really unfair person and you should feel the shame on you!!!
Sorry, but I don't understand why you talk about shame.
If in the original text there was "!" in the translated text must remain "!" and in a final check an editor must verify also punctuation, also the details are important in order to ensure the best final result. Me too, when I read translation made by others, if I detect a missing "." or another little detail to correct, I make the correction and the other translators make the same with my mistakes. I would like to do always a perfect job, but in every job, even if I try to be accurate, there is something to be corrected, especially if I translate in a language different from my mother tongue. So I know that when I made a job there will be someone who will make changes but I don't think the scope of those changes is to stole my money. We simply work in team. And each member of the team give a contribution.
Sorry to desagree
A double exclamation mark is not acceptable in French. A single one, of not particularly like, is more than enough.
You are probably technically
You are probably technically right, Sylvie, but what seems frustrating is that if, for example, I had picked up that translation anomaly, I would probably have advised the source "in French we do the exclam marks like this, etc., etc.,.....", but a lower rank translator cannot even change their own errors once it has gone through to the next stage even when they are given the opportunity. I am not sure what rank they have to be to be able to do this but I have definitely had some that have come back to me and said "you change it because my rank won't let me edit".